<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1331</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/9/99 8:34:14 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 9 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1331<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
States in the Imperium (was Re: Coke for Kiri [OT]) [OT]<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:47:45 -0000<BR>
RE: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
Re: Consumer products in 3I (was Coke for Kiri (OT))<BR>
Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)<BR>
Re: Threatening Worlds<BR>
Rob Caswell and the Fiery<BR>
A few requests<BR>
Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
Re: Consumer products in 3I (was Coke for Kiri (OT))<BR>
Re: Zhodani Gov't<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Cultures (WAS Evolution and the drifting generation ship)<BR>
The Republic Question<BR>
Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:56:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
>Like this:  霧   And since there are several ways that that can be<BR>
pronounced<BR>
>(in Cantonese it's "mou"), I will clarify:  きり<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The hiragana show's up fine, but I think the kanji should be in a larger<BR>
font.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:05:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Eric Freitas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Like this:  霧   And since there are several ways that that can be<BR>
> pronounced<BR>
> >(in Cantonese it's "mou"), I will clarify:  きり<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> The hiragana show's up fine, but I think the kanji should be in a larger<BR>
> font.  :)<BR>
> <BR>
Oh well you can't please everyone  ^_^  (It took me months of fiddling to<BR>
get that program to work at all!  Hiroshi's a Mac user, his advice was<BR>
mostly general.)  I'm just glad you can see it!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:33:26 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
errrr I can't :-(<BR>
<BR>
Just get little square boxes....<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 10 November 1999 01:06<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Eric Freitas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The hiragana show's up fine, but I think the kanji should be in a larger<BR>
> font.  :)<BR>
> <BR>
Oh well you can't please everyone  ^_^  (It took me months of fiddling to<BR>
get that program to work at all!  Hiroshi's a Mac user, his advice was<BR>
mostly general.)  I'm just glad you can see it!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:33:52 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: States in the Imperium (was Re: Coke for Kiri [OT]) [OT]<BR>
<BR>
I wrote (and was cruely edited!)<BR>
> <pro commonwealth><BR>
> </pro commonwealth><BR>
<BR>
Ethan Henry responded (to a hushed room)<BR>
>>><BR>
Hey, as much as I appreciate the sentiment, I don't know why you're<BR>
so pro-commonwealth, as you almost gave Her Majesty the boot a few<BR>
days ago I hear.<BR>
<<<<BR>
<BR>
Whether Her Australian Magesty reigns or not is actually not an issue in terms<BR>
of Commonwealth membership. You can be a millitary dictator and stil have a seat<BR>
at CHOGM (Commomwealth Heads of Government Meeting). It was brought up in the<BR>
debate, but since South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore and others do not have QEII<BR>
as head of state, it is a bit rich.I personally was of two minds on the<BR>
republic, as I was loath to loose all the cool imperial monikers and pagents.<BR>
<BR>
In reality, the Commonwealth of Nations is a club where Englqand and the anglo<BR>
colonies  (SA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) dance in glee that they are<BR>
not Americans, and the other commonwealth nations blast them for imperialism.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
OB Trav: Planetary gvernments do not have to be an issue for Imperial Membership<BR>
as well. Remember most of the imperial states where conquered or colonised from<BR>
colonial states. Some states would have also asked to be admitted. All planets<BR>
(and sub planet governments) could have (and do) have any political system under<BR>
the sun as long as they toe Imperial polacy and pay the taxes. The commonwealth<BR>
is actually a good base to work out how the Imperial system works.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:47:45 -0000<BR>
From: "MANTIS" <MANTIS@tinyonline.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:47:45 -0000<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:27:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Elfman" <elfman@pacificnet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if word 2000 will open it, but I am willing to try it. Anything<BR>
would be cool since I have a whole campaign to create from scratch and I was<BR>
going to use my computer to generate and create most of the characters and<BR>
maps. I could do it my self (lack of personal time right now) here are so<BR>
many people on this list.<BR>
<BR>
Best Regards,<BR>
William<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Shimmergloom<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 07:15<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> William "Elfman" writes:<BR>
> >Hello all,<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I am new to this list so I will be brief and to the point.<BR>
> >I am looking for some electron based traveller character sheets<BR>
> >and ships papers. Anyone have any of these or at least knows<BR>
> >where to find them? These would be for the First version (Black<BR>
> >Book Set).<BR>
<BR>
what format?  I have a character sheet that I created  for traveller in<BR>
lotus Wordpro.  I think it's still around.  Granted it does not support<BR>
any single Traveller edition but tries to be more of a generic sheet.  I<BR>
think I still have it around here.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 19:28:49 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Consumer products in 3I (was Coke for Kiri (OT))<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:  When you are talking about a meg-corp brand of softdrink that spans<BR>
>several systems, unless wholly imported, this must have similar incidents?<BR>
>(Remember, in my old TU, just to annoy some of the non-Pepsi drinking<BR>
>players, Pepsi won the cola wars by the time of the Rule of Man, and Pepsi<BR>
>was swept across the galaxy... only it didn't resemble Pepsi or Coke as we<BR>
>know it in the Marches.  I wonder how many NPC's gave up drinking it when<BR>
>they moved or were transferred to other systems?).<BR>
<BR>
In the GT books there are frequent references to a particular restaurant<BR>
chain that claims to have a location in each and every starport in the<BR>
Imperium, plus several outside it (Solomani Confederacy? Frontier worlds?)<BR>
and on many worlds themselves. Their logo looks suspiciously like that<BR>
of a well-known chain on contemporary Terra, but cut in half with a<BR>
stylized rocketship superimposed on it... so that it kind of looks like<BR>
the letter A, for "Astroburger". It's becoming a running gag in my own<BR>
Traveller game as the players realize that Astroburger is *everywhere*...<BR>
<BR>
Any other examples?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 19:33:38 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)<BR>
<BR>
>        Wow!  I haven't seen a reaction like that since the last time I<BR>
>suggested that Alberta was an Ontario-wannabe.....  =)<BR>
<BR>
You've got it the wrong way around, there... everybody else is <BR>
copying *us*. :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:35:57 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Threatening Worlds<BR>
<BR>
>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
>Subject: Threatening Worlds (was Re: Re: Coke for Kiri [OT])<BR>
...<BR>
>        Which would be worse than a waste of jump fuel.  Unless the<BR>
>intention was to glass a couple of cities from orbit, no amount of<BR>
>troopships and Tigresses are going to actually threaten any world worth<BR>
>threatening.  I've done the economics on it, and it is *heavily* in favor of<BR>
>the defender.<BR>
<BR>
  You may be using an over-simplification from your TCS experience, where<BR>
all of the other powers combined (a somewhat laughable concept, that one)<BR>
only muster about a 6:1 superiority, or less after subtracting non-Jump<BR>
mobile assets.<BR>
<BR>
  Each Imperial sector fleet should average at least ten times the budget<BR>
available to a single Hi-Tech/Hi-Pop world, and that assuming that it both<BR>
maintains substantial assets of its own, and that the colonial sub-sector <BR>
fleet goes over to it en masse. Not that there aren't real problems with<BR>
the generation system that gives those results, but that's another thread.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:48:35 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Rob Caswell and the Fiery<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
For those interested, I just sent Rob a "head's-up" regarding Jesse's work on<BR>
the Fiery. I thought he might be interested, since he not only illustrated the<BR>
ship, but part-owns the "Starship Modeler" site (http://www.starshipmodeler.com)<BR>
which contains *some* 3d-work...<BR>
<BR>
And the real news is that I tried out "Traveller" in the new search engine on<BR>
the "Starship Modeler" site, and found a scratch-built Rampart-class starfighter<BR>
model! Its direct URL is:<BR>
<BR>
     http://www.starshipmodeler.com/gallery/contest2/entry17.htm<BR>
<BR>
..if you want to take a peek (of course you do! ;-).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:36:41 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: A few requests<BR>
<BR>
Folks, I wonder if any of you can help me out a little.<BR>
<BR>
There are a few relevant items I haven't been able to lay hands on while<BR>
researching the upcoming Solomani Rim book for GURPS Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
In particular, I'm looking for the following (thanks to Hans Rancke-Madsen<BR>
for coming up with a partial Rim bibliography):<BR>
<BR>
Challenge #29: "Scientists" article<BR>
Challenge #37: "A Body Swayed to Music" adventure<BR>
Challenge #42: "Research Station Beta" article<BR>
Challenge #53: "Strider Incident" adventure<BR>
<BR>
There's also apparently a lot of material in Travellers' Digest #13 and #14,<BR>
which may be "forbidden canon" but which I should probably be aware of.<BR>
At the very least I don't want to invalidate any of it.<BR>
<BR>
Another thing which might be helpful is the extended Law Level tables<BR>
from the hardbound Milieu 0 campaign book.  There are so many<BR>
totalitarian planets on the Rim that I'm having a hard time making<BR>
creative distinctions between all of them.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone is willing to make "fair use" copies of any of these items for<BR>
me, I'd appreciate it greatly -- and I'd also be glad to reimburse reasonable<BR>
costs.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 19:41:30 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
<BR>
All this talk about corporations and the various races in<BR>
and around the 3I get me to wondering: what kind of cultural<BR>
expressionism (ie, "the arts") will we find from the various<BR>
races? What do Vilani paintings look like? (Do they even paint<BR>
paintings?) What kind of music do Zhodani listen to? Are the<BR>
arts in the Solomani Confederacy the state-supporting propaganda<BR>
one found in the Eastern Bloc pre-1990 or in Nazi Germany?<BR>
<BR>
The only example IMTU that's come up is Vargr Opera, as one of<BR>
the characters is a Vargr. We've determined that Vargr opera<BR>
is reminiscent of Klingon Opera from Star Trek, but with a lot<BR>
more howling. ("Sparky", the Vargr engineer, has been told to<BR>
stop playing it over the ship's loudspeakers -- or else.)<BR>
<BR>
Any other examples? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 21:06:20 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Consumer products in 3I (was Coke for Kiri (OT))<BR>
<BR>
cos 90 wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >ObTrav:  When you are talking about a meg-corp brand of softdrink that spans<BR>
> >several systems, unless wholly imported, this must have similar incidents?<BR>
> >(Remember, in my old TU, just to annoy some of the non-Pepsi drinking<BR>
> >players, Pepsi won the cola wars by the time of the Rule of Man, and Pepsi<BR>
> >was swept across the galaxy... only it didn't resemble Pepsi or Coke as we<BR>
> >know it in the Marches.  I wonder how many NPC's gave up drinking it when<BR>
> >they moved or were transferred to other systems?).<BR>
> <BR>
> In the GT books there are frequent references to a particular restaurant<BR>
> chain that claims to have a location in each and every starport in the<BR>
> Imperium, plus several outside it (Solomani Confederacy? Frontier worlds?)<BR>
> and on many worlds themselves. Their logo looks suspiciously like that<BR>
> of a well-known chain on contemporary Terra, but cut in half with a<BR>
> stylized rocketship superimposed on it... so that it kind of looks like<BR>
> the letter A, for "Astroburger". It's becoming a running gag in my own<BR>
> Traveller game as the players realize that Astroburger is *everywhere*...<BR>
> <BR>
> Any other examples?<BR>
<BR>
What, did you miss the AAFES posts from July 1999?  (The premise was<BR>
that the Army & Air Force Exchange System [AAFES] established<BR>
shoppettes, Anthony's Pizzas, and other facilities on various<BR>
Terran-occupied worlds during the IW period, these facilities evolving<BR>
into a chain of 4-star restaurants by the 3I.)<BR>
<BR>
Personally, as a St. Louis native, I'm holding out for White Castle....<BR>
<BR>
<homer><BR>
Mmmmm, belly-bombers....<BR>
</homer><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 17:33:28 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Gov't<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:52:03 -0500<BR>
> From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
> Subject: re: Zhodani Gov't<BR>
> <BR>
> GypsyComet wrote:<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>  Advancement in the nobility of the Consulate has more to do with<BR>
> the desire to lead and the responsibility to do so. At every level<BR>
> the nobles are a democracy amongst themselves, regardless of how<BR>
> they handle the Proles that are their responsibility.<snip><BR>
>  The closest I've come to describing this is "Democratic Meritocracy."<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>><BR>
 <BR>
> Once a simple, reliable technique is developed for keeping the proles<BR>
> in line, will the Zhodani Tvarcheedle spend their resources working on<BR>
> a more complex technique that's nicer to the proles' brains, or will they<BR>
> instead work on making the simple (though brutal) technique more<BR>
> effective and more efficient?<BR>
> <BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	At a certain point, making the simple (and brutal) technique more<BR>
effective require a better understanding of what's being mangled. You<BR>
can go so far with the Brute Force approach, each level requiring more<BR>
and more energy (Psi Strength), then one of the "Adjusters" takes a<BR>
second look at an "Unrecoverable" prole, and in a burst of creativity<BR>
discovers a second method of rewiring the brain. <BR>
	Depending upon how much of a Feudal Technocracy ITU the Zho's are would<BR>
determine how far repeated applications of this algorithm will go. My<BR>
guess is the Zho's have an extremely good understanding of a narrow set<BR>
of brain patterns. The Zho's initial education system fixes what would<BR>
be a large number of variables in the prole's brain patterns. This is<BR>
also what irritates most Zhodani travelling in the Imperium, they can<BR>
read minds, but not understand the problems. <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 17:47:44 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 13:42:43 PST<BR>
> From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
> Subject: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
> <BR>
> (I'm sure this comes up at least twice a year, so sorry if I'm bringing back<BR>
> an undead thread)<BR>
> <BR>
> I tend to design support vehicles and starships for the sake of<BR>
> completeness. However, I run into a problem with Traveller; the primary role<BR>
> (or at least a major role) of an ARV (Armored Recovery Vehicle) is to take a<BR>
> damaged vehicle from where it was knocked out to where it can be effectively<BR>
> repaired. This usually isn't much of a problem with wheeled or tracked<BR>
> vehicles; as long as wheels or tracks or intact, you just tow it back.<BR>
> <BR>
> This really doesn't work for grav vehicles, though, unless you want to drag<BR>
> them around on their underbodies. As I see it, there are three (well, four)<BR>
> possible recovery situations for a grav vehicle:<BR>
> <BR>
	You have forgotten one solution. Similar situation to #3, but instead<BR>
of a flat bed, use a crane or external grapple. Like from a helicopter.<BR>
Recovery vehicle descends, large claws extends around the disabled<BR>
vehicle (or ship and pick it up and move slowly off.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 03:25:04 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 8 Nov 1999 22:42:49 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Stop and consider just how many Imperial troops were involved. What<BR>
>percentage of the total troop strengths are the POWs. Now consider the<BR>
>total Imperial population in the Spinward Marches. What percentage of<BR>
>*that* are they?<BR>
><BR>
>That's why it's unlikely to lead to a war. They are the equivalent of<BR>
>half a dozen POWs from the US. Deplorable, but going to war would kill<BR>
>more US troops simply from deloyment accidents, much less combat.<BR>
><BR>
>On the other hand, it gives a great excuse to play "Rambo" and try for<BR>
>a rescue mission.<BR>
<BR>
How many does it take? Are one million POWs worth going to war for?<BR>
One hundred thousand? One? Where do you draw the line?<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"'Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep<BR>
 your own. 'Compassion' is when a politician arranges the transfer."<BR>
                                     -Joseph Sobran<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 20:26:01 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> > This really doesn't work for grav vehicles, though, unless you want to drag<BR>
> > them around on their underbodies. As I see it, there are three (well, four)<BR>
> > possible recovery situations for a grav vehicle:<BR>
> ><BR>
>         You have forgotten one solution. Similar situation to #3, but instead<BR>
> of a flat bed, use a crane or external grapple. Like from a helicopter.<BR>
> Recovery vehicle descends, large claws extends around the disabled<BR>
> vehicle (or ship and pick it up and move slowly off.<BR>
<BR>
I missed the original post, so forgive me if this has been mentioned<BR>
before.<BR>
<BR>
Why not have the recovery vehicle's crew simply attach portable antigrav<BR>
units to the downed vehicle. Use these units to get the vehicle floating<BR>
again, and have them slaved to the recovery vehicle. Then just tow the<BR>
vehicle home.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 21:50:37 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Cultures (WAS Evolution and the drifting generation ship)<BR>
<BR>
Well, the setting is non cannon, so the 30,000 years is no problem.  But I try to<BR>
avoid over using the Ancients so they don't get boring to the players.  I mainly<BR>
wanted to know ho long it might take for evolution to produce a new sophant<BR>
species on the ship so I could judge how long to have the ship floating in<BR>
space.  The species I have in mind are a tribe of reptiles that are roughly late<BR>
iron age.  (Using the stuff found around the ship and worshiping the auto-repair<BR>
system maybe.)<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> >So, after forty years, the ship lands and sows the original 100 species of<BR>
> >plants plus around 40 new breeds that have developed on the ship.<BR>
> >Unfortunately, the Saline Nutrient bacterium that developed in the<BR>
> >hydroponics system appears to have taken well in the shallow seas of the new<BR>
> >planets as does the Duct Virus that developed on the large colonies of soil<BR>
> >bacteria, similar to the skin bacterium Staph Aureus, in the life support<BR>
> >plant. People are still suffering from the Ship Flu that swept through<BR>
> >passenger cargo section three a few years ago. There are no midget people,<BR>
> >winged men, talking flowers or any of the other things I suspect you want.<BR>
> >To get those, we need to move the people into the same position as the<BR>
> >bacteria and, based on known human speciation, we need a journey of<BR>
> >approximately 30,000 years to see much change.<BR>
><BR>
> Granted this handwave is overused...but...Instead of a RoM ship, why not<BR>
> make it one Grandfather's ships?  It could then be built as big as you<BR>
> want, have all sort of interesting stuff in it, and considering that the<BR>
> BEM in charge of it was into genetics...well, you get the idea...<BR>
><BR>
> Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
><BR>
> "To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
>     may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
>       ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
><BR>
> mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:02:54 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:00 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Coke for Kiri [OT]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote"<BR>
> > <pro commonwealth><BR>
> > </pro commonwealth><BR>
><BR>
> Hey, as much as I appreciate the sentiment, I don't know why you're<BR>
> so pro-commonwealth, as you almost gave Her Majesty the boot a few<BR>
> days ago I hear.<BR>
><BR>
> ObTrav: A planet has a referendum to remove themselves from Imperial<BR>
> rule and to become an independent, sovereign state... would the<BR>
> Imperial Palace be nice and send diplomats or not so nice and send<BR>
> in thew shock troops? And would they wait until after the referendum?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Apparently the "Republican Issue" isn't quite over yet... it is still open<BR>
for debate and election issues in the future with members of near *all* the<BR>
political parties split on the subject.  Interestingly enough, our Queen has<BR>
nothing against us spreading our wings and leaving the Monarchy.<BR>
<BR>
This may not sound the very best on my behalf, but I couldn't see a reason<BR>
to become a republic and don't care one way or the other.  As I understand<BR>
it, the referendum was lost because the template was for a "President" that<BR>
was elected by a few Aussie citizens (the politicians currently in power)<BR>
and not by a majority vote of the people.  But my reason for a no vote?  So<BR>
far, this has cost the Australian people over $2.5 million already!  Upon a<BR>
successful Republican vote it is estimated that the actual changeover costs<BR>
would be a further $7 million plus!!<BR>
<BR>
Now call me foolish if you like, but I live in a city (town actually, but<BR>
hey) that the local hospital is so inadequately underfunded that there is<BR>
not a week that it is not mentioned in the local/state media somewhere, and<BR>
all it needs to become safe and workable again is a mere $0.5 million.  Then<BR>
there are things like schools (I am a father of 4) that would do well with a<BR>
small slice of this money too, not to mention roads, social security,<BR>
pensions, medical groups, research, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Australia's head of state is the Queen of England.  Australia is self<BR>
governing however.  We do not pay taxes to the Royal Family or the U.K., we<BR>
decide to war or not war on behalf of the Queen (or the Americans for that<BR>
matter), she or her cabinet CANNOT compel Australia do this, nor can it make<BR>
Australia do ANYTHING Australia does not wish to do.  We get no aide from<BR>
the U.K., nor will we if we become a Republic.  Is there a special reason<BR>
for becoming a Republic other than cutting the "apron strings" which are<BR>
cosmetic anyway and do not do anything special in reality?<BR>
<BR>
But more importantly to me... is there a way of becoming a Republic without<BR>
cost to the citizens/public?  Is this the sort of question that should be<BR>
asked of a [majority of] people that has already done so (their country<BR>
already become a Republic) of it's own accord, but for very different<BR>
reasons (taxes as opposed to prestige)?<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Will the Imperium take by force any system that wishes to leave<BR>
it's fold?  Are the systems that as independent, would still hold close ties<BR>
to the Empire and not be subject to force of compliancy?  Is there anything<BR>
canon about such worlds/systems?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 21:58:25 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
<BR>
Pete wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Mon, 8 Nov 1999 22:42:49 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Stop and consider just how many Imperial troops were involved. What<BR>
> >percentage of the total troop strengths are the POWs. Now consider the<BR>
> >total Imperial population in the Spinward Marches. What percentage of<BR>
> >*that* are they?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >That's why it's unlikely to lead to a war. They are the equivalent of<BR>
> >half a dozen POWs from the US. Deplorable, but going to war would kill<BR>
> >more US troops simply from deloyment accidents, much less combat.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >On the other hand, it gives a great excuse to play "Rambo" and try for<BR>
> >a rescue mission.<BR>
> <BR>
> How many does it take? Are one million POWs worth going to war for?<BR>
> One hundred thousand? One? Where do you draw the line?<BR>
<BR>
That, sir, depends on whether you have read, and agree with, _Starship<BR>
Troopers_.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that the Emperor and his advisors have not attended History<BR>
and Moral Philosoph classes under LtCol DuBois et al, so I would expect<BR>
the Imperium to consider a relative handful of PWs as a regrettable<BR>
circumstance, rather than as a _casus belli_.<BR>
<BR>
As far as mounting a rescue mission goes, that would depend on at least<BR>
these two factors:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Where are the PWs being held?<BR>
<BR>
2.  How many PWs are being held there?<BR>
<BR>
Given that "Colonel de Bessier maintains that from 2,000 to as many as<BR>
10,000 Imperial personnel are held at a number of locations within the<BR>
Zhodani Consulate, and that seven of these locations have been<BR>
'positively identified'", I would expect that no rescue effort short of<BR>
all-out invasion would be able to retrieve more than a handful of these<BR>
PWs.  IMHO, it would be highly improbable that a successful rescue<BR>
mission could be mounted on any site deeper than 5-6 parsecs inside<BR>
Zhodani space.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, humans have the amazing ability to confound those who say<BR>
something is impossible/improbable....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 23:28:44 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/8/99 7:35:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, roc@kewl.com.au <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< From what I have seen and understand, most heavy AFV's are only towed very<BR>
 short distances (to get them to a nearby safe zone for further transport if<BR>
 required). >><BR>
<BR>
Correct. There is a BIG difference between a tank retriever and a tank <BR>
transporter. A retriever tows, and a transporter (usually unarmored) carries <BR>
(think a truck -- semitrailer lowboy rig like they use to transport heavy <BR>
construction equipment). For grav AFVs; I agree that the two functions would <BR>
be combined as it's a HELL of a lot easier to just carry the damn thing...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1331<BR>
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